9 replies to this topic

[Donnie Silveray]

It's amazing what thinking in the shower does to one's mind.

The latest series of controversy and pain regarding balance once again seems to stem from the 'problem' with jump sniping. Indeed I do see such foes every once in a while. Sometimes one poptart a match packing 2 AC5 2PPC generally, or at worst several. I've at worst seen 4 enemy mechs on a single team packing the dreaded AC5 PPC loadout. But I don't want to talk about that. Something else came to mind when it comes to dealing with such tactics, and that is tactics themselves.

First off, think of how a PUG match goes. Bunch of folks essentially chatting once in a while, slamming R to indicate a massive enemy force and then such. When you are in such a situation where information gameplay is stagnated to simple line of sight and guessing, it makes sense why poptarts are so common. When you want a method to make being seen as little as possible while doing as much damage in a single instant, you poptart.

MWO needs more teamplay mechanics.

1) The 'Q' menu seen in some FPS games. Brings up a menu of options ranging from intel to voice chat. What I'd like for MWO to implement is an 'Enemy Spotted' function which reveals all enemies you had Hollow Triangle spotted in a specific area. Pressing Q in that instance will highlight all enemies you saw in the area on the minimap. However allies cannot lock onto them or recieve intel on them until an ally has already obtained intel. This is a means to allow scouts to scout better by providing more clear information on enemy numbers and position rather than spamming R. When a PUG team has intel of enemy positions, they are able to adapt and position themselves other than purely blob together.

2) Map Ping. MWO needs more functionality on the minimap over simply viewing it or commanders inputting commands. Think League of Legends and how they redid their Ping system. A player is capable of inputting a rapid series of pings that detail a tactical situation:
- "Enemy Missing" -> "Warning, here?" -> "Be careful" -> "I am on my way"
These commands can be inputted in less than two seconds. Having this on MWO will allow for more player autonomy by being able to relay information on what they intend to do and how they intend to do it.

I am certain there are more ways to implement better team information and coordination. But to the point on how it deals with poptarts:

Poptarts are essentially part of the meta of preconception. Much as PGI mentioned with regards to players deploying in assaults expecting assaults, players likely poptart as they expect assaults and the notion that it is difficult to combat poptarts. This is driven by the nature of current PUG gameplay being often centered on uncertainty. Players will often group together, rarely spacing out in open spaces, making them easy poptart targets.

Having greater tools at one's disposal to elicit information and team tactics will allow for greater autonomy and flexibility. A poptart attempting to pick off scared pugs will be less likely to succeed if scouts know where he is and who is supporting him as well as what may be on the way towards said foe.

I hear that said poptarting is in effect even in group tournaments, with fully coordinating teams. I cannot say for certain on how to dissuade full on pre-made poptart groups. However a lone poptart player would be less inclined on said tactics in the opposing team has the information needed to rely less on grouping up and suffering from battlefield confusion.

[cSand]

Yep adding some hotkeys even would add the ability to communicate important facts, without having to listen to some douche on the public VOIP

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Aside from an enhanced command interface (command wheel has been mentioned many times), and integrated team VOIP, map pings are probably the main thing I'd like most to see in MWO (only ping from the battle grid, but it shows on the radar when in normal HUD view (can't see them in 3PV but there would be an audio queue of some kind).

[El Bandito]

cSand, on 05 June 2014 - 04:31 PM, said:

Yep adding some hotkeys even would add the ability to communicate important facts, without having to listen to some douche on the public VOIP

This excuse again? Just include mute option, like any other decent FPS game out there.

[Draykin]

El Bandito, on 05 June 2014 - 07:18 PM, said:

This excuse again? Just include mute option, like any other decent FPS game out there.

I want to point out here, that if you include VOIP, you include the risk of people with poor connections/bad microphones/language barrier, which can in turn result in serious miscommunication, whereas a communications menu with preset call-outs offers a much smaller chance of miscommunication. How can you react to someone telling you something if you can't even understand what they are saying?

[Donnie Silveray]

Draykin, on 05 June 2014 - 08:10 PM, said:

I want to point out here, that if you include VOIP, you include the risk of people with poor connections/bad microphones/language barrier, which can in turn result in serious miscommunication, whereas a communications menu with preset call-outs offers a much smaller chance of miscommunication. How can you react to someone telling you something if you can't even understand what they are saying?

There is generally no reason not to include both as they are generally separate, unique elements part of communication and coordination. I don't think MWO is too terribly fast paced to necessitate voice comms as mandatory, but generally it is handy.

[Jeb]

I was thinking the "enemy spotted" key (Q in BF games) would be great as well... but I wouldn't have it send all mechs as suggested, I would have it work the same as in BF games where you have to mouse over the target, hit your "enemy spotted" key, and then it shows the enemy's position for a certain amount of time.. This wouldn't let others target the enemy but lets the scouts report spotted mechs... I hate it when I can see a mech on screen, but I can't relay it's position to my team (besides having to type it all out in chat, which then doesn't even stay on the screen very long) if it's further out then my sensor range....

Also fix chat... I miss so many messages from them scrolling off the screen... not having a way to scroll back is just silly...

[Onlystolen]

Donnie Silveray, on 05 June 2014 - 04:28 PM, said:

It's amazing what thinking in the shower does to one's mind.

The latest series of controversy and pain regarding balance once again seems to stem from the 'problem' with jump sniping. Indeed I do see such foes every once in a while. Sometimes one poptart a match packing 2 AC5 2PPC generally, or at worst several. I've at worst seen 4 enemy mechs on a single team packing the dreaded AC5 PPC loadout. But I don't want to talk about that. Something else came to mind when it comes to dealing with such tactics, and that is tactics themselves.

First off, think of how a PUG match goes. Bunch of folks essentially chatting once in a while, slamming R to indicate a massive enemy force and then such. When you are in such a situation where information gameplay is stagnated to simple line of sight and guessing, it makes sense why poptarts are so common. When you want a method to make being seen as little as possible while doing as much damage in a single instant, you poptart.

MWO needs more teamplay mechanics.

1) The 'Q' menu seen in some FPS games. Brings up a menu of options ranging from intel to voice chat. What I'd like for MWO to implement is an 'Enemy Spotted' function which reveals all enemies you had Hollow Triangle spotted in a specific area. Pressing Q in that instance will highlight all enemies you saw in the area on the minimap. However allies cannot lock onto them or recieve intel on them until an ally has already obtained intel. This is a means to allow scouts to scout better by providing more clear information on enemy numbers and position rather than spamming R. When a PUG team has intel of enemy positions, they are able to adapt and position themselves other than purely blob together.

2) Map Ping. MWO needs more functionality on the minimap over simply viewing it or commanders inputting commands. Think League of Legends and how they redid their Ping system. A player is capable of inputting a rapid series of pings that detail a tactical situation:
- "Enemy Missing" -> "Warning, here?" -> "Be careful" -> "I am on my way"
These commands can be inputted in less than two seconds. Having this on MWO will allow for more player autonomy by being able to relay information on what they intend to do and how they intend to do it.

I am certain there are more ways to implement better team information and coordination. But to the point on how it deals with poptarts:

Poptarts are essentially part of the meta of preconception. Much as PGI mentioned with regards to players deploying in assaults expecting assaults, players likely poptart as they expect assaults and the notion that it is difficult to combat poptarts. This is driven by the nature of current PUG gameplay being often centered on uncertainty. Players will often group together, rarely spacing out in open spaces, making them easy poptart targets.

Having greater tools at one's disposal to elicit information and team tactics will allow for greater autonomy and flexibility. A poptart attempting to pick off scared pugs will be less likely to succeed if scouts know where he is and who is supporting him as well as what may be on the way towards said foe.

I hear that said poptarting is in effect even in group tournaments, with fully coordinating teams. I cannot say for certain on how to dissuade full on pre-made poptart groups. However a lone poptart player would be less inclined on said tactics in the opposing team has the information needed to rely less on grouping up and suffering from battlefield confusion.

Good idea, but "programming is hard" PGI wont do it

[RussianWolf]

cSand, on 05 June 2014 - 04:31 PM, said:

Yep adding some hotkeys even would add the ability to communicate important facts, without having to listen to some douche on the public VOIP

Sorry dude, I'll try not to be as douchey when we are one TS dude.

[Bongo TauKat]

I agree with the wheel option. It worked wonderfully in Battlefield 2 with quick information and communication. I would go one further and be able to target an enemy mech under the crosshairs and tapping the center wheel as "enemy spotted". It would not count as a lockable target and only indicate the initial spotting point without tracking it afterwards. To avoid a million dots simply have it degrade the dot over 2-3 seconds. This could simulate both contact calls without giving an real intel other than that.